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WELCOME, glad you could visit us, OUR TOPIC: Burial, Cremation, Green Burial, Resomation, Where do you think we are going?. THIS CHAT WILL PROBABLY BE COPIED TO www.funeralserviceprofessional.com FOR ANYONE TO ENJOY LATER. Just a few rules for everyone: 1. USE ONLY PLAIN BLACK TEXT 2 DO NOT USE COMPANY NAMES 3 DISCRIMINATION IS NOT ALLOWED. If you would like chat reminders please send to LOWELLMA@AOL.COM Also our Colleague Kent Dorsey is on his radio show tonight in North Carolina Http://www.wcab59.com/ondemand/
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Host_John: Hello Brud
Host_John: Back to school in my neighborhood
Brud: evening - sorry was working on my corporate laptop
Brud: my kids start school on Tuesday -- 9th & 10th grades this year
Host_John: Wife is teacher so she is getting ready for the past week or so
Host_John: just teachers tommorrow
Host_John: students on Tuesday just like your family
Host_John: slow start tonight
Host_John: I have been on vacation for the past couple of sundays
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Brud: small group here last week too
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Host_John: Yes with no topic or reminder it does slow donw
Host_John: down
Brud: my wife facilitates grades 4-6. Students are taught by video
Host_John: Hello KJ & Hinge cap
kj: Hi, this is a very timely topic for me
Dave_Badger: John my Friend first time here Dave
Host_John: Hello David How are things in suburbia?
Dave_Badger: oh moving on moving on
Host_John: Good to hear it
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Host_John: Dave's funeral home is 20 miles from mine
Dave_Badger: the city creep is approaching uhhhhhh
Host_John: he is in clean air country
Dave_Badger: no country her anymore
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Host_John: bringing us to tonight's topic
kj: i am from hamilton ontario
Host_John: How is weather in Hamilton?
kj: hot and humid today ...
Host_John: was perfect today here in New England
kj: yesterday we could have fried an egg on a headstone in the cemetery
kj: there was no tarrying after the committal
Host_John: how are you doing with burial vs cremation
Brud: I"m seeing some red leaves here in Maine in the valleys by bogs
Brud: =(
Dave_Badger: creamtion up profit down
Dave_Badger: %%%% cant spell
kj: i keep the stats for my funeral home , we are at 45% cremation, 55% traditional
Host_John: if the family has a plot they stay with burial, if the lot if full we see cremation
Dave_Badger: "contribution to overhead"
Host_John: I did see some figures for new england on cremation prompting this topic
Host_John: cremation is on the rise
Host_John: plenty of questions on green burial
Brud: coast of Maine approaching 60%
kj: we are just beginning to talk about green burials here
Dave_Badger: as long as the dogs don't dig you up
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kj: and no one not even the direcctors seemed to know about resomation
Host_John: cemeterys won't allow direct burial with no containment of remains
Host_John: how do you make disclosure
Host_John: how do you explain what green burial is?
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kj: when we talk about green burials we are talking about containers that are biodegradable like kosher caskets
Host_John: easy for one to talk about green burial as a removed party
kj: no nails or metal hinges or handles
Host_John: but when it is your loved on it is a different story
Dave_Badger: cardboard?
kj: we have had families come in and say they want a jewish funeral
kj: that means no embalming and a "kosher" casket
Host_John: Kosher means no nails
Host_John: Cardboard as Dave said
kj: right , usually they want to have a funeral ceremony without an open casket
Host_John: much more you need people to wash the body
Host_John: and usually very quickly for the burial
kj: true but in their mind, they want no nails, no metal , simple wood boxes
Host_John: in special gaments too
Host_John: kj we are in the service business now a days
Host_John: the mahogany generation is less and less
kj: the non jewish families do not realize that the jewish dead are ritually washed , shrouded and prayed over .. they only know what they see
Dave_Badger: ya betcha long gone
kj: which is a simple funeral with a simple casket
Host_John: so many words to discribe out job
Host_John: simple burial
Host_John: what is complex burial
Host_John: it's someone's mother
Host_John: it is usually not simple
Dave_Badger: most people dont even want to see the loved one---- too educated--- "i'll deal with it later
kj: i think viewing varies from place to place
Host_John: Dave how do they feel when they read of funeral mis identificaations
Dave_Badger: john at least you have the camobodian an veietnamese traditionsl
Dave_Badger: they dont care
kj: I have a friend that did the stats in pittsburgh which is similar to Hamilton demographically , they view all the time, cremation is very low
Host_John: wow
Host_John: I am surprised that your families really don't care
Dave_Badger: they trust that we will do the right thing
Host_John: well we are human
Dave_Badger: John should we have them identify and charge them?
kj: then you must have earned their trust by doing the right thing
Host_John: we should encourage identification
kj: here, we have everyone make an Id - there was a huge screw up about 2 years ago
Host_John: hospitals, and funeral directors do make mistakes
Dave_Badger: you did not ansewr my question
kj: no charge for the Id ,
kj: I would say Id , for your own sake more than theirs
Host_John: we should encourage identification Dave and our charges should include such a service
kj: why should you charge for a family making an Id
Host_John: if they decline identification OK but we offered it
Host_John: the same reason we charge for the removal
Dave_Badger: you have to spend the extra time to get them ready and use of funeral home
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Host_John: logic says the car is there why charge for that?
kj: a removal requires time, manpower, gas, vehicles
kj: an Id requires you to put the body on display for the family and costs you nothing
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Host_John: id requires people power and facilities
kj: i disagree,
Host_John: kj you pay no taxes on your facilites, no heat or AC?
kj: the body is there in the prep room or holding room - it should be a part of the service charge to tranfer
kj: of course we pay
kj: but i figure that letting a family make the Id is a heck of a lot less trouble than the law suit for having cremated or embalmed the wrong person
Host_John: so you have insurance
kj: an Id takes us about 5 minute prep time to cover the body and wheel it into an empty room for the family
Host_John: to support malpractice?
kj: they are there for 5 minutes ... they are gone - total time invested 10 minutes
kj: we are happy .. they have made an Id .. everyone walks away from the right body
Dave_Badger: you have good people ---- mine end up staying for hours at a time
Host_John: well you need a piece of equipment to roll the individual on, you need a preproom, and a viewing room, who is paying for their costs?
kj: considering a direct cremation here is running $2000 , i say we can afford them the 10 minutes
Dave_Badger: and it was not contracted for
kj: what do you do with your church truck or your prep table ?
Host_John: so the full service funerals subsidise your free ID's?
Host_John: Not saying your left and I am right
kj: no, our direct disposals support their ids
Host_John: just a matter of factors to figure into your service charge
Host_John: disposal? What is that KJ?
Dave_Badger: arent direct disposals exactly waht they are called
kj: direct disposal means the person is going into a cremation container, being signed off by the coroner and then sent to the crematorium
kj: the family may or may not opt for a memorial
Host_John: I think you can find better words to describe what you do
kj: something better than a direct disposal ?
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kj: direct cremation or direct burial is how we refer to it when talking with the famiyl
kj: but in the backroom, it is what it is , a direct way of disposing of a body
Host_John: direct cremation includes what kj?
kj: no stopping for a visitation or any pleasantries
Host_John: no prices just what does it include
kj: being placed in a cremation container and sent to the crematorium
Host_John: with a free ID?
Host_John: not to pick on you only KJ
Dave_Badger: kj what kind of urban setting are you in?
Host_John: we have to be sure we are charging what we are spending if we are to be here to serve our community in the future
Host_John: family's are smaller
Host_John: services are briefer
Host_John: and we will do many more of them to exhist
Host_John: only those who charge appropriatly will survive
kj: the price includes services of the funeral director , staff and overhead, use of facilities for shelter of the deceased, legal documentation, transport to the crematorium and a cremation container - all for the price of about 2500$
Host_John: OPEN FORUM FUNERAL CHATTER UNTIL THE TOP OF THE HOUR
kj: we are in a small city , bordering on a larger city
Host_John: please do not use prices
kj: we ask families to sign that they have Id their deceased
POG70: Hello, Sam
Host_John: you should put ID on the bottom of the container as well
Sam_Moore: Hello Pog All
Host_John: Hi Sam
kj: the body itself is tagged twice at the hospital or nursing home and that corresponds to our paperwork
POG70: Some crematories remove the lid
Host_John: you can't see the toe tag under stalkings
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kj: our crematorium doesnt remove the lid
Sam_Moore: catch me upto date on the topic
hrbeckham: Good evening all
Sam_Moore: hi hr
Host_John: here they always remove lid for ME viewing
hrbeckham: howdy
POG70: cremation, Sam
kj: the container is burned as it is received
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kj: our coroner has to sign before we can close the container
Host_John: you are in canada
kj: yes
kj: so our laws are a little different
hrbeckham: I do not see "green" burials catching on in coastal Florida Water table is too high
Host_John: things are diffent in different areas
Host_John: Howard I can see it happening
kj: actually the American Funeral director recently had an interesting article about burials at sea in their green edition
Host_John: burial at sea would be great if there were not so many regulations many in place to prevent remains from floating ashore
hrbeckham: I have several waiting for the water to drop from Fay so we can bury
kj: we arent even allowed to disperse ashes in public areas including golf courses, waterfronts
POG70: no dispersing in public areas here
Host_John: similar here KJ but the public does what they wish
hrbeckham: burial at sea rare even here
kj: something like what happens in the winter to a friend of mine who has no graves dug in the winter months
POG70: The family usually does the scattering, so -in reality- cremains get scattered in the parks, etc.
Host_John: I am hoping resomation becomes legal, this way we keep everything in house
hrbeckham: Epa might start getting edgy when you are taking a dozen caskets to drop off into the Atlantic
kj: if a family is caught scattering, they are fined here
Host_John: Ill bet there arnt a hand full that got fined for scattering KJ
POG70: Same here. But I've never heard of anyone being caught
Dave_Badger: Intersting isnt it John
kj: i suspect resomation will go the same route as cremation, slow to catch on and then boom .. here it is to stay
Host_John: only those who are very public about scattering in public places are talked to by authorities
hrbeckham: first huricane that washes one up on the beach and the press alone will be a nightmare
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Host_John: It is very enlighting Dave
kj: we once had a family announce they were scattering at the lakefront and boom, someone told someone who told someone and they were watching
Dave_Badger: We were trying to get a crematory going in the cemetery in Litketon
kj: i am sure they just moved on a scattered anyway
POG70: More and more i hear of objections to locating crematories in certain areas
Dave_Badger: darn Nimbys
Host_John: easier said than done Dave
kj: do you think that is because people are unnerved by the idea of lving near a crematorium?
Host_John: the clean air people will put up a stink
Dave_Badger: yep we found that out
Dave_Badger: tree huggers
Host_John: Resomation is pretty cool idea
POG70: Many think it will pollute the local air\
Host_John: if you find time on your hands google it
hrbeckham: expensive
kj: the clean air people objected here too ... then they were given the facts about particles and well .. now we have a crematorium
kj: have you heard about the freeze drying in Scandenavia?
Host_John: tell us KJ
kj: i think its neater and maybe less costly , i heard a paper about it
kj: they drop the temp of the body to a very low temp, send a sound wave through and it crumbles into dust ... something like freeze drying coffee
Sam_Moore: thats the way to go Kj
Host_John: yes but when it unfreezes it still decomposes?
kj: about the retorts .... arent your retorts controlled by the environment people who monitor how many emissions there are ?
Sam_Moore: yes we are
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Host_John: Yes there are air quality standard tha thave to be met
kj: apparently not, its like coffee .. stays freeze dried
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kj: too bad for the tree huggers, if the air isnt polluted .. they will have to find another reason to conscientiously object
Sam_Moore: what happens when it gets water?
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kj: stir briskly and reconstitute ... i dont think they add water
Dave_Badger: John i thought resomation was a "Hot Idea" heheheh
kj: the speaker said they put them in a container and off they go with the family
Host_John: KJ if you freeze something to solid then break it into small particles, when it is un frozen you still have the same matter
hrbeckham: let us see here...traditional burial with cemetery cost say...12k, direct cremarion ...say $1 Grand...resomation...lets say $10000 freeze dried...$6.65 fo 2 lbs????
Host_John: matter will decompose
kj: a very hot idea ..
hrbeckham: and you get a neat can too?
kj: does your coffee decompose?
Host_John: no it does not
Sam_Moore: Kodak moment..priceless
kj: apparently so ...
hrbeckham: b iodegradeable
Host_John: freeze dried coffee is not the same
kj: maybe you can put the ashes into a coffee can
Host_John: coffee does not decomose with out water
Sam_Moore: have you seen the biodegradeable packing peanuts?
hrbeckham: or a Pringles container
Host_John: BRB
kj: have you seen the containers families receive in England containg their cremains?
Dave_Badger: no
kj: they look like whisky bottle containers .. tall cylendars
Dave_Badger: god bless them pints
hrbeckham: with equipment cost so high for resomation and who knows for freeze drying? what would it cost to offer these services
kj: you can double dose your whiskey purchase and recycle the container for your cremains
hrbeckham: a $100k Crematory is cheep in compare
Dave_Badger: yep
Sam_Moore: i [ut one in a new paint bucket and they took them home
JimT: not cheap.
kj: i have no idea about cost for either, the speaker said it is in the early phase
Dave_Badger: could be a flash in the pan
Sam_Moore: 450K to start up
kj: i am sure its not cheap , then again neither is a retort cheap to buy or a creamtorium cheap to build
hrbeckham: I have seen crematories return crmains in Paint cans before
Sam_Moore: then you have problems convincing the populas on the water being safe to put on the farms
kj: wasnt there one state that passed the law allowing resomation?
Sam_Moore: yes
hrbeckham: legal here in Florida
kj: but i think that i read that they have withdrawn permission while it is studied for a while more
hrbeckham: U F operates one
Host_John: Back on topic in 4 minutes
hrbeckham: they love it
kj: and is it profitable?
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POG70: Did we get off topic?
hrbeckham: used for medical cadvers not ment to be profitable
kj: i didnt think we did but maybe ...
kj: fair enough
Dave_Badger: John put that whip down
hrbeckham: can you believe it is still raining here ?
kj: can you believe it is almost labour day ?
POG70: We're burning up here... no rain
Host_John: No whip Dave, we usualy get back to topic pretty quick like the end of service time
Dave_Badger: aha
hrbeckham: we will send Fay your way, 6 times is enough for one state
POG70: I hear that, hr
kj: on topic question? what impact do you think the babyboomers are going to have on the types of funerals and dispositions in the next 10 years or so
Host_John: Howard do you have much storm damage?
hrbeckham: 24" of rain in some parts of Florida...only about 9" here
Host_John: yies
Dave_Badger: very questionable---- Massachusetts cremation rate appears to be a t 40per cent
Host_John: grass will be growing soon
POG70: kj, more of the same impact they are having now... more cremations, more abbreviated services
Host_John: OK back on topic now
Dave_Badger: we are becoming the Bfi of funeral business
hrbeckham: not really...some lost lights some tree damage ...about $600 at work and two roof leaks showed up...gona cost more
Sam_Moore: we have a lot ov visitations and servies and then cremation..keeps us profitable
kj: what then is the future for the funeral industry if all we are is a drive through for deceased bodies and their families?
Host_John: What are you doing to stay profitable in these days?
Dave_Badger: just keep talking to them and encourage some services
POG70: kj, we have to adjust...be proactive in offering those services attractive to them\
kj: i think one of the things we are trying to do is to educate families that cremation is not a type of service but it is the same as burial .. you still need a ceremony
Dave_Badger: we are becoming the Bfi of funeral business
hrbeckham: not really...some lost lights some tree damage ...about $600 at work and two roof leaks showed up...gona cost more
Sam_Moore: we have a lot ov visitations and servies and then cremation..keeps us profitable
kj: what then is the future for the funeral industry if all we are is a drive through for deceased bodies and their families?
Host_John: What are you doing to stay profitable in these days?
Dave_Badger: just keep talking to them and encourage some services
POG70: kj, we have to adjust...be proactive in offering those services attractive to them\
kj: i think one of the things we are trying to do is to educate families that cremation is not a type of service but it is the same as burial .. you still need a ceremony
hrbeckham: I keep on trying to get receptions off the ground...but the boss wats us to go off sight and rent a hall
kj: i think that some families want to get closure through a ceremony and some just want to walk away
Dave_Badger: cant do that here
hrbeckham: families quickly relize they can do the same for less
POG70: that's the right track, kj.....too many people think of cremation as an alternative to any funeral ceremony.....most are surprised to elarn they can have more than just a direct cremation\
kj: we have a gorgeous little cottage with a yard that our families can use for their receptions
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hrbeckham: that is fantastic
kj: it sure isnt a money maker though after the cost of food and staffing but we offer it more as a service than a money maker
hrbeckham: how does it work out?
kj: it has brought a number of people into the funeral home tho who have been to a reception there and that translates into dollars
hrbeckham: service is important
hrbeckham: brb
POG70: One fh in my area has an event center across the parking lot from the funeral home. They even have wedding receptions there
kj: people seem to like the cottage and more so the chapel
Sam_Moore: we have weddings on the week-ends and in the evenings also have a reception hall
kj: we let non profit groups use the cottage for free as a way of advertising
kj: that has also brought in some people to make funeral arrangements
Host_John: no no, I mean how are you going to make profit with your funeral home, mortuary, cemetery or crematory?
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CCowan: Hi Everyone
hrbeckham: you have got to figure it into your service fees more and more
Sam_Moore: Hi Cc
Host_John: lending the place for a wedding or a movie is not what you went to school for
Host_John: Hello CC
kj: in the states , I believe you can own a cemetery and crematorium if you are a funeral home .. here we cannot
CCowan: Hey Sam
Host_John: each state if different KJ
CCowan: Been to long
kj: but it might pay the bills if its a slow month
CCowan: Mi
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Host_John: a good time for age gender location Check
kj: we dont do weddings , only funerals at our homes
Host_John: 60, M, Lovely Lowell Massachusetts USA
CCowan: Female, 54
kj: 57, F, Hamilton Ontario
Sam_Moore: older woman near disneyland calif
kj: sorry, Canada
POG70: A separate building on the property or even across the street works well in attracting non-funeral events...but you need to charge for them
CCowan: Love your humor, Sam
Sam_Moore: ta ta
JimT: hello kj.
hrbeckham: getting states to have stricter standards will weed out some of the marginal funeral establishments
JimT: i am from canada.
kj: where in canada , jim?
POG70: Instead of their going to a restaurant after a traditional funeral, the famikly can come beck to the event center for a meal, etc.
JimT: Owen Sound.
JimT: Ontario
hrbeckham: Tinkerbell on Geratol? I think not!!!
Host_John: states will not stand up behind board members and let them get sued personally
kj: like kissing cousins
POG70: Tenn tried that, hr......got slapped down
Host_John: authority in our industry is crumbling
JimT: why?
hrbeckham: agreed
Host_John: because it is OK to lie and get away with any story that will float the issue
kj: is that how the bad apples got all the great press by Jessica Mitford?
hrbeckham: push for higher standards iin the industry
Host_John: how many reqire government ID for any kind of arrangemetns
kj: and the good guys were never heard from
CCowan: The closing ceremonies of the Olympics is on now. Fireworks at the start of it were spectacular
hrbeckham: fine the bad apples
hrbeckham: get people to lodge complaints
kj: here , here ... agreed, fine them out of existence
POG70: I'm watching "On the Beach"
kj: they ruin it for everyone
kj: them and the socalled whistle blowers inside the industry that believe everyone is a theif
kj: hmm... i would say the texas robbers are close to the biggest distorters of the truth most days
Sam_Moore: I met the assistant to Judge Judy ar a service Friday. One of her staff members died. She was too short to be seen...and all he wanted to know was where is the bathroom
Host_John: do you require any ID for arrangemnts
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Host_John: how do you know who you are dealing with?
JimT: sorry. what should i just say?
kj: someone has to claim to be the executor
hrbeckham: priest in a neighboring city upset with a low end funeral home because they "forgot the checks" and still months later...they never paid up....upset at everybody
kj: we had an instance where the person claiming to be the executor turned out not to be the executor
hrbeckham: I ask for Id and a copy of the will
Sam_Moore: It happens Kj
kj: jim ... we refer to them at our home as the texas robbers
CCowan: Looks like the topic is national and state regulations. Am I correct?
CCowan: Good one, kj
hrbeckham: no comply...we no move
JimT: oh. sorry.....
JimT: kj, are you in ontario too?
Host_John: na it is where are we going?
kj: actually we had a family refer to them that way first .. i cannot take the credit
JimT: i hate the texas robbers.
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CCowan: kj, that's exactly what they are
Host_John: CCowan how do you make profit with direct burial and direct cremaiton?
kj: you are preaching to the choir
hrbeckham: my topic is bed time.......zzzzzzzzzzzz Good night all...may God bless and protect America
Sam_Moore: nite hr
hrbeckham: Good Night
Host_John: Jim you are off topic
JimT: but i am glad that i like family run firms.
Host_John: Night Howard
kj: good night
JimT: sorry john.
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JimT: i will shut up.
CCowan: nite, hr
kj: keep going Jim, i am sure you have something valuable to contribute
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Host_John: our future seems to be smaller funerals and briefer services
kj: i goofed and put in a price for services
Host_John: now you will have to do a lot more funerals
Host_John: or change your ways
JimT: if i did, john will jump all over me.
kj: it certainly seems that way
Host_John: seriously folks
Host_John: we copy and paste this chat
Host_John: now if an owner reads it
Host_John: guess who gets called?
JimT: my apologies.
kj: no, it seems that smaller services and higher prices are the way we are going
Host_John: if a consumer advocate reads it guess who gets called
Host_John: you all have instant messenger
JimT: true.
Host_John: thanks for understanding
JimT: ok.
Host_John: I think in order to keep profitable we need to self regulate
Host_John: offer products that will sell
Host_John: sharing ideas on what is successful is one way
Sam_Moore: carry a nice line of urns
JimT: it is getting harder to stay in business anymore these days.
Sam_Moore: encourage urn present at memorial service
kj: it seems to me that people want new rituals because many of them are no longer affiliated with official churchs but they still want some sort of ceremony
Host_John: I wonder if the intnet casted funerals sell well?
Host_John: we have a clergy shortage here
Sam_Moore: havent heard anymore about it John
kj: i recently read about an internet prearrangement service ,
Host_John: It is a great idea but are people willing to pay
Host_John: a good line of urns I mean 20 or more is a great way to sell urns
kj: have you looked into celebrants and chaplains instead of using clerics?
Sam_Moore: our Pa caswes have risen and we are in rotation and cant refuse
Host_John: Huminists KJ?
JimT: more and more people are starting to become poor and not able to afford high priced funerals anymore.
JimT: i thought about becoming a celebrant.
Host_John: excellent point Jim
Host_John: we have on occasion been the celebrant on funerals
Sam_Moore: I can legally marry you and I have heard so many sermons I could and have done a few gravesides
POG70: I've been doing that for years
Host_John: we print out the Our Father or what ever prayer of remeberance is appropriate to all who attend before service and recite together
kj: celebrants can do life oriented funerals or some will perform a funeral ceremony that conitues references to god , uses psalms etc
CCowan: Sam r u a notary public
Sam_Moore: no
Sam_Moore: anyone can get a liscense to marry here
kj: the clergy often bring us the order of service for family and guests
kj: otherwise we dont hand out anything
CCowan: Interesting Sam
POG70: For many today, a non-cleric officiant/celebrant si just fine
POG70: no license needed here to officiate at funerals
JimT: i have only done one graveside service a couple of months ago....
Host_John: I dont know of any license to officiatiate at funerals
kj: occasionally we have a truly secular funeral ceremony - no mention of god , but mostly we have humanist ceremonies that are loosely based on religious ritual and order
kj: i dont think you require a license to perform a funeral ceremony as a rite of passage ...
POG70: I'd say none is required anywhere
Host_John: now do you charge for celebrant if you provide staff celebrant
kj: there is no legal certificate from the funeral , that is done in advance by the funeral professionals
kj: they do here
Host_John: Those guys know how to fold a flag!
Sam_Moore: i get 4.75 an hr no matter what position I fill for the day
Host_John: Mayor of london looks stupid with open coat
Host_John: not even a suit
Sam_Moore: how was your l;ondon trip
Host_John: was wonderful Sam
Host_John: thanks
CCowan: Have to agree John. It looks sloppy
Sam_Moore: my grand son went to oxfor for the summer
Host_John: the english doen live in London
POG70: Maybe he's too plump to button\
Host_John: all for other countrys
Host_John: jeeze does he not know he is on TV
Host_John: the queen will be bull!
JimT: boris johnson is a nice guy.
Host_John: we are watching the closing ceremonies of the Olympics
kj: wonder what they think of funeral service in the future!
Host_John: the chinese want to sell us products
kj: speaking of which, did anyone ever see a program called hatch, match and dispatch?
Host_John: that was a wonderful argument a three sundays ago
kj: where the funeral home goes ahead with a pet funeral to make some extra money
Host_John: Jim is the expert on Pet Funerals
kj: so i am discovering
kj: we havent done any here .. tho someone suggested in the winter that we should begin doing them
Host_John: OPEN FORUM FUNERAL CHATTER UNTIL NEXT TIME, HAVE A GREAT WEEK!