John Carmon told us the search for the CEO at NFDA continues, they have advertized in several publications he named many as I was taking Pictures I remeber one being the New York Times
Next up was Dwayne Spence, about NFDA's POE program, and he said they have 93 Eagle Awards, Dwayne Challenged attendees to be involved with NFDA's Award Program, Dwaye also commended (NFDA's Goddess of POE, as well as manager of meetings and conventions) DeAnn Scrabeck for all her efforts
Attendance was pretty good, John Carmon announced visiting association members, among them were: Tom Snyder of CANA, Paul Ilvig from ICFA, Lisa Carlson from FAMSA, And John McDonough FSPA.
The Debate of who can sell preneed would began at 7:30 am in the Grand Ball Room, with somewhere around 300 in attendence.
On the side of non funeral directors to sell Pre need were:
French Mortuary funeral director Chester Stewart:
Many funeral homes are afraid of Preneed, a quality preneed program must be done, we cannot go back to the 60's & 70's taking care of the at need and the occasional walk in pre need. Pre Planning is something that must take place, and often is the third largest expense one will have. Recently his sister died and made her needs know to her family, enabling them to have the funeral she wanted, often we hear family's say > I wish my mom or dad had talked about what they wanted < . He provides four weeks of intense training to his pre need consultants, these folks deserve the same benefits as our regular staff, we must give the consumer a choice, if we provide the service we will give the consumer a good sense of value.
Trust 100 Alan Creedy:
A cemetery friend told him a story of funeral homes selling vaults and he was selling containers, after a while less and less family's bought containers and bought their vault from the funeral home, he was loosing over 300K in income over the loss of container sales, later this same cemetery offered caskets for sale, the issue is who should sell pre need. Over the last few years funeral sales have continuously fallen, funeral directors are the most regulated in the industry, consolidators have also had a hand in the change of funeral service, the Internet has started to change the way consumers do business. The regulators have not regulated the entire industry only Funeral Homes. Very soon these casket sales people will figure out how to become funeral brokers, if you think regulations will help, your wrong, funeral directors are the only ones Regulated by the FTC. Pre Need is not about who sells pre need, its all about who will dictate the future of the funeral business. Doctors laughed at the HMO's and now they are on the outside looking in. Funeral service should look to reduce legislation regulating their industry. My Funeral Director friend at the cemetery now councils the family how much a funeral will cost and now sells people final expense policy's, people are figuring out how to sell funeral plans with out a funeral home being involved, Funeral Directors have lost all the ground they can afford to loose. Right now you call the cemetery, in a few years perhaps the cemetery, funeral broker or internet outfit calling you. Is this the future you want for your sons and daughters.
On the side of the licensed funeral directors exclusively selling preneed were:
Pennsylvania FDA Executive Director John Erickson:
He does not believe that pre need sales by unlicensed people to sell pre need, Peace of mind for who? The casket stores? The consolidators? We are discounting the fact that preplans are often made with the terminally ill, a 4 week course cannot compare with the training a licensee has, do not allow this to happen at any cost.
Renowned author and funeral director Thomas Lynch:
He started off with a video of ABC news about the high cost of dying and pre planning. It was the Approved message about pre need, Batesville and Forethough are poised to become what HMO's have become to the Health Industry, ads for the caskets with the tackle boxes on the sides will soon be on television.
We hear you better be a player before someone beats you to the sale, can you imagine a blue cross rep doing triage, why go to school for years of training when, you can take a course and sell pre need? The message of If we don't do it some one else will, it is the only message from the trade press and NFDA, when the senate held two days of testimony NFDA blamed the Senators for our public image. Articles telling the truth were time and again rejected by NFDA's Director Magazine, thanks to Mortuary Management and the Courage of it's publisher Ron Hast, he published my articles.
On TELEVISION the AARP claims of Funeral Service Pre Need malpractice, countless consumers on national television explaining how they were ripped off, an institutionalized scandal. NFDA continued to blame ABC News for making us look bad. This is not about the media its about the message, the message had been overlooked for years by NFDA, too often we deserved the criticism, the first NFDA Employee to criticize what has happened was the Director Editor Chris Raymond, and the first President to Criticize NFDA is John Carmon, today NFDA about one third of our profession, and next year they will represent less. It will require incite, and principles to change things, the junk mail and advertising, telemarketers sad to say: we have become our own worst enemies.
The Debate began, with John Carmon as moderator:
Alan Creedy suggested we decide on how much the pre need should be retained by the seller if canceled
Tom Lynch suggest we retain nothing, if you get rid of the carrots you will get rid of the jackasses, there should be 100% refund with cancellation
John Erickson said we should error on the side of the consumer, if that means 100% refund so be it, we should error on the side of the consumer
Chester Stewart agreed we should be on the side of the consumer
Lynch said a funeral is not a great investment, the fact that it costs the same as a trip to Disney does not mean we should marketed it the same way
Alan Creedy, said the it should be regulated and audited
Chester Stewart leave it in the hands of the regulators.
John Erickson Said we need to take the good with the bad, pre planning has it's advantages, how ever we need to make sure what ever is there is regulated and has accountability
Moderator John Carmon asked for comments with respect to the Shortage of Licensees
Erickson said we need to work with attracting more people into our industry, make it an attractive career for individuals into this profession
Lynch We have not defined what a funeral director is, we need to redefine and draw a line on who we are, it is not the things we sell it is the things we do for people is what counts
Stewart said It is our integrity that counts. pre planning does not take away the Funeral Directors ability to serve a family.
Creedy the shortage has to do with the working conditions within the industry, with the lack of Licensed Funeral Directors, you cannot adequately serve the market place.
comments: IF non licensed make pre needs why not at need?
Creedy said we are not comfortable dealing with grieving families, when the death occurs the funeral director is gifted to serve that family
Erickson said FD's are the ones who are qualified and experienced in sitting with a grieving family
Stewart said at need is very different, he believes it is possible for non licensees who are more competent in dealing with grieving families than some Funeral Directors
Lynch the non licensed retired school teacher tend to the grieving needs cannot compare with a funeral directors
SHOULD WE LOOK AT LICENSING, SHOULD EMBALMERS LICENSE BE THE STANDARD
Lynch we should always look to improve the curriculum in our schools, it should be what it takes to become licensed, we serve the living by caring for the dead
Creedy, there is a difference between what you can and what you cannot have to do, this whole process has to be under the supervision of the Funeral Director, we would prefer to work under the direction of the Funeral Home, we had a case load of 75 calls per license, with the shortage we are going to have to find ways to do 125 calls per license
Erickson It seems the combined license seems to be the standard for the industry today and it's working
Stewart agreed with Lynch there is real value in the FD being and Embalmer.
DEBATE WAS OPENED UP FOR QUESTIONS FROM THE FLOOR
NFDA's Bob Biggins asked about care giving, my roll is to care and council and not to sell, addressing Lynch about the NFDA issues "Bob Harden will not be writing any more letters"
ANOTHER FD AT THE MIKE: We are way below the third highest purchase, forgetting We do not sell, family's select we do not sell, I don't want FDs selling auto and home services in kind I don't want a not license person selling funerals, another funeral director remarked the same having paid for his daughters wedding last weekend. Another FD said in a preneed situation, the knock at the door comes by the pre planner the widow has no one to support decisions (suggesting advantages would be taken).
Stewart said the pre planners must have integrity, Lynch said you can trust a funeral director at need or pre need, Creedy We have not and will not tolerate any advantage taking.
CLOSING COMMENTS
Tom Lynch, thanked John Carmon for having this forum,
LYNCH: I AM NOT SAYING! I am opposed to pre planning, we are obliged to provide this service, it is a professional service, nor am I opposed to the Pre Funding, I AM SAYING the pre selling of funerals has not helped our profession. Marketers, promoters all jockeying for position to sell pre need, peddling pre paid funerals is dangerous. Our licenses are being devalued by allowing our associations to promote and train pre planners. We are more than event planners, we serve the living by caring for the dead, the real funeral director is most impressed with how they serve not how much they sell, premium service not premium sales, Rise to this occasion, do nothing and watch are our professionalism disappears from the landscape.
ERICKSON: MAKING THIS SIMPLE , WE HAVE THE EDUCATION EXPERIENCES AND PROFESSIONALISM, WE DON'T Want to be come a commodity, hold your ground, work in the consumers best interest and this industry will thrive.
CREEDY: Arguing who should sell preneed is fruitless, ten years ago I was in the flower business I heard of 800 flowers, cutting in the market of the local florist, I understand that SCI is approaching firms to join their divinity program, FTD was sold off, 1800 flowers controls the process, what made 1800 flowers possible, all the mechanisms are in place for this to happen in funeral service, there are dynamic forces in position to take these same steps in funeral service. You have lost all the ground you can afford to loose we need to start pulling together NOW.
STEWART: (briefly because we are out of time) We are not living in a perfect world, we must be responsive to the consumer, we can do a better job if we have a quality preneed program. We must model integrity over everything else.
The only one I had time to attend was for the larger associations with over 300 members, the issues thretning them are for the most part volunteerism. The Number of Active members is dwindling. A discussion of perhaps re-embursment to active members for expenses or CEU's for activities was discussed.
BOTTOM LINE: GET INVOLVED! Get your members involved any way you can, and let others know what works!
Rumor was = Members of the Independent FDs of Florida paid $2,200 for a booth at the Orlando NFDA convention, which is sponsored by Florida FDA. Apparently, the FFDA execs weren't too happy about that, and they asked NFDA to not let IFDF have exhibit space. NFDA just informed IFDF that they won't be able to exhibit, and returned their check. Suggestions guess FFDA a) views them as competition and b) has a few chain members who don't like the IFDF.
Sooooooooo!
I asked face to face in Connecticut, NFDA's acting CEO Christine Pepper, who decided to exclude Independent FDs of Florida from purchasing a booth at NFDA's National Convention, Christine told me the Executive Board voted to exclude the IFDF, Later on I had a chance to Speak to Dwayne Spence, I asked Dwayne if he was on the Executive Board, Dwayne said he is on the Executive Board, then he was asked about the Indy FD of Florida booth rejection and Spence said the Board voted to reject their application because they had no product to offer.
I told Dwayne I did not agree with their decision, however I was greatful for his comment for the update!
In a message dated 8/1/01 3:30:44 PM, marguin@ifdf.org writes:
John, I would like to ask your readers if their state associations have requested booth space at the NFDA convention, either this year or in years past. If so, what was their experience? Has the NFDA rejected their paid request for space?
Please have responses sent to marguin@ifdf.org
Thanks!
Michele
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In a message dated 8/1/01 1:20:21 AM, Bob in California writes:
I have a question. It seems that everyone turns to the NFDA as the source of all information. Why?
The NFDA, in my perception, is running to meet all the large corporations needs. Starting first with removal of our overtime pay, then by banning the Independent FD's of Florida from having a booth on "their" convention floor.
Why is our profession allowing this to happen?
And more important...why are the independents allowing the corporations to have a say in how their business's are run by the "leadership" of the NFDA.
It's time to remind the NFDA that it was the Mom & Pop firms that gave NFDA the start it needed way back when...and the Mom & Pops, can, will, and SHOULD remove NFDA from their "leadership" role until they return back to the basics.
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In a message dated 8/1/01 3:00:38 PM, Robert writes:
Glad to see the pics and the comments. It was by far one of the best I've attended. I have to give John Carmon credit for allowing the panel discussion---this is exactly what NFDA needs.
Are you aware NFDA worked somewhat with state vital stats about a nationwide death certificate. When asking an NFDA officer about that and several other items, was told quite bluntly, it was none of "my damn business!" Isn't that interesting! They will never learn. We all realize sometimes not all info can be related, but to be told in such BOLD manner is extremely unprofessional. I would love Tom Lynch to got head-to-head with that executive board member!
Well, keep up the good work!
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In a message dated 8/1/01 4:21:18 PM, Roger writes:
John, looks like a nice place, thanks for the photos and blow by blow of the debate.
As one of the debaters already said, we are our own worst enemies, take one step forward by: inviting Lisa Carlson to the debate, take two steps back: barring Florida Independent Funeral Directors from convention. NFDA needs to keep especially independent members, all the while the corps sit back and laugh, divided we fall!
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In a message dated 8/1/01 18:27:58 EDT, Martin writes:
John, warn your members! Don't go to Orlando, INDEPENDENT FUNERAL DIRECTORS can be barred from admission!
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FUNERAL SERVICE PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATION does not share membership info with anyone, no one will be given your information with out your permission or a court order.
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Consider these steps for your life.
1. Work like you don't need the money.
2. Love like you've never been hurt.
3. Dance like you do when nobody's watching.
C YA
John
BOTTOM LINE: WE ALL WORK FOR THE BETTERMENT OF FUNERAL SERVICE PROFESSION AND THE DEATH CARE INDUSTRY THE CONSUMERS WE SERVE AND THE PROFESSIONALS WE WORK WITH. IF YOU SEE ANYTHING WRONG, IF SOMETHING HERE REALLY OFFENDS YOU, LET'S WORK TOGETHER. PLEASE NOTIFY FSPA IMMEDIATELY, YOU CAN E-MAIL TO lowellma@aol.com Or call FSPA in the United States Voice 978-458-6816 Fax 978-459-0115 or the old fashioned way through the mail at FSPA c/o 14 Highland Street Lowell, Massachusetts 01852-3399 USA
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