"Pre Paid Funeral's Guranteed or not"

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WELCOME, glad you could visit us, OUR TOPIC: "Pre Paid Funerals, Guaranteed or not?" THIS CHAT WILL PROBABLY BE COPIED TO www.funeralserviceprofessional.com FOR ANYONE TO ENJOY LATER. Just a few rules for everyone: 1. USE ONLY PLAIN BLACK TEXT 2 DO NOT USE COMPANY NAMES 3 DISCRIMINATION IS NOT ALLOWED. If you would like chat reminders please send to LOWELLMA@AOL.COM
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Host_John: hello
Host_John: excellent day here
Host_John: great way to end the summer
islanddavebadger: john my friend
Host_John: Hi Dave
islanddavebadger: how are we today
Host_John: we are fine
Host_John: Dave do you use the Sun most often
Host_John: they never call me back
islanddavebadger: yes
Host_John: I notice our legacy obits on the sun look better at legacy through the tribune
islanddavebadger: shame on them usually call if they have problem
Host_John: I want the pictures on Legacy too
islanddavebadger: Karen is good when she has questions
Host_John: Karen is excellent
Host_John: I asked her to have her boss call me
islanddavebadger: they just email the bills heheh
Host_John: everything costs money
barry has joined.
Host_John: hello Barry
islanddavebadger: raise ???|\
barry: hello
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Hrbeckham: but for how long will it last?
barry: i do. i don't need anyone saying i'm not a person of my word.
Host_John: Yes Howard but do you gurantee to do that funeral for monies received?
islanddavebadger: is your trust keeping up with the numbers?
Host_John: ours does not keep up with the numbers
Hrbeckham: If we did not guarantee charges, I think our preneed people would not be able to have any business
Host_John: the insurance companies have a serious short fall
islanddavebadger: mine either but is is not bad 4.9 per cent
barry: with some insurance companies i trust with anything over 85yrs or 90yrs with another is automatic non-guaranteed
Hrbeckham: only if is paid in full
Host_John: Barry do the trusts pay for the entire funeral
Hrbeckham: if the family will pay the balance right then and there, we will honor the guarantee
islanddavebadger: and so 5 years d?own the road
Hrbeckham: if not, we will apply what has been paid in towards todays prices
Hrbeckham: or if insurance will pay off balance
Host_John: how will you pay new taxes Howard?
Host_John: a national sales tax
Host_John: how would you pay those taxes?
barry: john, if someone prepays in full & i trust it wheather non or guaranteed i will honor it. don't need anyone upset
Host_John: the funeral home I mean
Hrbeckham: tax is not here yet
Hrbeckham: I doubt it will happen
Host_John: Understood Barry
Hrbeckham: if it does, it will effect preneeds I recon
Host_John: well Washington is bailing out Wall Street and the Banks
Host_John: the will fund that some how
Host_John: Obama is right up front he will find new taxes for busineese
Hrbeckham: there will have to be a sales tax catigory under non price protected items I guess
Host_John: businesses
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Host_John: I don't think families will pay any extra at time of death
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barry: i know some families in my area will not prepay because someone they knew someone who went to xyz funeral home and had prepaid 10 years ago in full and the undertaker still shakes 'em down for another $750 or more
Hrbeckham: I ask them all the time to pay for non price protectet items
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Host_John: Barry I think that may be our future
Host_John: I think we will see a new tax on all businesses
barry: i know the increases don't keep up inflation
Host_John: I don't think the associations are strong enough to get pre paid funerals exempted
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Host_John: I am glad we have mostly trusts and few insurance funded pre paids
Hrbeckham: I review the prepaid contract with families and explain to them what is price protected(fixed price) and show them the non price guaranteed items and explain to them what that means
Hrbeckham: most understand right off the bat
POG70: <<<<all insurance-funded
barry: i know a funeral director that says in his prepaid contract for example: 17% of total funeral price is cash advances. if percentage is higher at death, your family will have to make up for the shortfall
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Hrbeckham: we used to do more trust, now we lean much more toward insurance
Hrbeckham: benefits to both
POG70: Hr, you are right. Correctly explained, everybody understands the difference between guaranteed and non-guaranteed elements
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islanddavebadger: sorry need velcro
diggerffs: The problem comes when the death occurs. The survivors are the ones who don't understand and think they are being taken. Especially if they weren't the ones who originally planned the funeral.
POG70: Lol
Hrbeckham: I would prefer from a business standpoint to have all charges not to be price protected
islanddavebadger: well if a service was paid for in say 74 at those prices hmmm lets think
fluidpusher: Hard to justify prepayment if no guarantee.
Host_John: Good point Digger, especially those who made a partial payment
Hrbeckham: that is why you carefully review the contract with the family Before you even get near a current charges
islanddavebadger: i bought a brand new car that year for 2400.00 now the go for 300000
Host_John: the family often is angry that we need to finish up and pay the balance
fluidpusher: extra zero there, badger?
islanddavebadger: sorry ther
Host_John: Dave has a Bentley
islanddavebadger: Phttttt
Host_John: Nice Bentley Hearse Dave
islanddavebadger: gosh
islanddavebadger: wish i had
Host_John: just kidding
Hrbeckham: most understand that cemetery charges have changed, newpaper obit charges have goe up, and for goodness sakes flowers....
islanddavebadger: you all understand
Host_John: some of the cemeteries here offer a pre pay plan we take advantage of
Host_John: they give us a letter that that burial and cement container are paid for
islanddavebadger: i remember when service charge was under 1000 and my dad had a fit when we told him it had to go higher
Host_John: those were the good old days
fluidpusher: All the area catholic cemeteries used to guarantee O&c prepaid, now only one does.
Hrbeckham: The only problem I have had is with someone who did not want to comeinto the office and just wanted to review everything over the phone. They kept arguing that their famil member had told them that they paid in advance for everything.
islanddavebadger: heheh yep we were poor!!!
Host_John: we were never poor just too large of a family for the income
islanddavebadger: there ya go
Host_John: now a daze everyone has a car, cellphone, laptop
fluidpusher: most of our families understand the concept of guarantee vs. non-guaranteed. I have very few problems.
islanddavebadger: document document hr
fluidpusher: I do not guarantee any cash advances
POG70: The contract should clearly state about guaranteed and non-guaranteed items, and that should be emphasized to purchaser.
Host_John: how do you make up the shortfalls fluid?
fluidpusher: Yes, pog, most of the bigger companies have good, clear contracts.
POG70: fp, that works. It makes sense to people when properly explained
islanddavebadger: Mass has now helped us out with that with state contract
fluidpusher: John, family pays the difference on the cash advances.
barry: i have to deal with surprises for example a family prepays here in mich. then moves to florida. family calls and says we moved. my father says no problem, the increase in your policies will cover the airfare, then i have to eat the airfare
Hrbeckham: drives me nuts when people drive up in nice cars, have cell phones, smoke, and then say they want a nice funeral but have no money
Host_John: and the short fall on the guranteed side?
Host_John: you eat it?
islanddavebadger: Ahhhhh liberal welfare folks
fluidpusher: yep, have to
Hrbeckham: Some ask if they can negotiate the bottomline figure.
POG70: Funeral directors forget they got a commission and perhaps a bonus on the front end with insurance preneeds
Host_John: today we emphasize that the funeral is not guranteed
Host_John: we expect there will be larger short falls
islanddavebadger: do they do that with their surgeons???
Hrbeckham: I tell them sure, which do they prefer cash, charge, or insurance assignment
Host_John: Surgeons are makeing less every year
POG70: John, do you not guarantee anything on preneed?
POG70: We acce[t credit cards
Host_John: exactly POG
Host_John: we dont gurantee
Hrbeckham: if we stopped our guarantee, that most likely would end our preneed peoples jobs
POG70: We'd lose preneeds that way
islanddavebadger: how big a firm Hr
Hrbeckham: so if you do not guarantee John, what do you do???
POG70: The cost guarantee is what drives our preneed
Host_John: we should start to think of how we will make up the shortfalls
fluidpusher: John, what is the advantage for people to prepay with you if you don't guarantee anything?
islanddavebadger: it is all medicaid
Host_John: the at needs could be subsadizing the pre needs
POG70: I wouldn't take out a preneed if there were no cost guarantee
Host_John: Fluid I believe that they would not be pre paying if they were not going on medicaide
Host_John: it is a sheltered assett
POG70: Most of our preneeds are not on Medicaid\
fluidpusher: shortfalls are a deductible expense, as a preneed discount.
POG70: I had a 29-year-old take out one recently
Host_John: once we tell them that it is not guranteed. often they will spend more on a casket or vault knowing they will choose a lesser grade when the time comes
fluidpusher: John, Medicaid finds out about that, and you all can get in trouble.
Host_John: we rarely change a thing and usually eat the shortfall
fluidpusher: Why do you eat the shortfall if it is not guaranteed?
Host_John: however with this Wall Street and Bank Bail out, Uncle Sam is going to come after us for more $$$
POG70: But if you don't guarantee, how come there's a shortfall?
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fluidpusher: Non guarantee means the family makes up the shortfall
barry: i've noticed since 2004 preneeds have declined substantially. i promote it agressively. in the same 6 week period 4 years later i only did 10 preneeds as opposed to 40 preneeds. i think it's the economy. no disposable income.
fluidpusher: Agree, barry, our preneed is down as well.
Host_John: the economy is melting Barry
fluidpusher: At need remains stable
Host_John: OPEN FORUM FUNERAL CHATTER UNTIL THE TOP OF THE HOUR
POG70: I'm having the best year ever in preneed
Host_John: Our pre needs are up, so it must be geographical
Hrbeckham: so why not just sell an insurance policy for X dollars, and just write down you funeral plans and hope the insurance covers it?
Host_John: I am confident we will be down next year and you will be up
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barry: i know firms that do preneed seminars at the local senior citizen center. i bet they do well.
islanddavebadger: to all are preneend to guaranatee future service or to aid in Medicaid
POG70: Without the cost guarantee, the only preneeds we would have would be Medicaid cases
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Hrbeckham: so Nfda is allowing vendors to give away free exhibit day passes to their clients
POG70: I bet attendance will be down
Hrbeckham: is that because they are looking at smaller than expected attendance at their convention??
Host_John: Howard I am guessing NFDA knows that Attendence will be extremely low
Hrbeckham: or have they done this before??
barry: time flies. convention next month??
Host_John: I usually dont' pay
Hrbeckham: in Orlando...a hot vacation spot?
Host_John: I get a Media Pass
POG70: Had an oversize shipin driven in from out of state because the airline turned down the shipment 2nd time that's happened lately
fluidpusher: I'm going, only to go on a Disney cruise afterward. Really don't care about the convention.
Hrbeckham: really, because of the chat room?
Host_John: YIKES
Host_John: how much was the wight POG?
POG70: 570 pounds\
Host_John: Yes, I am considered media
POG70: total
islanddavebadger: they just need to find big enough plane
Host_John: I did put out a dandy spread about each convention I went to
POG70: yep
Hrbeckham: If Nfda is not well attended....maybe Ron Hast is right...they are on the way out
Host_John: so it was well worth it for the Assn's to get me in there
barry: i put a 480lb. on delta recently. they took it. i received a 560lb. last year. airlines took it
Host_John: I am puzzles
islanddavebadger: john u are a peach
Hrbeckham: puzzles?
Host_John: do you get 737s into your airprot POG?
POG70: I've known one airline to take overages before, after calling Hq for permission
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Host_John: some think I am a Lemon Dave
islanddavebadger: depends on airports john
Host_John: LOL
Hrbeckham: I think some charge more
islanddavebadger: phht
POG70: Not in Chattanooga...have to go to Knoxville, Nashville or Atlanta
Host_John: sorry what is phht?
islanddavebadger: prop planes vs jet
POG70: sounds like a gaseous emission
Host_John: that ay be the issue cannot get into cargo doors on the small plaines
islanddavebadger: my toung stick out at ya
POG70: Chattanooga only has commuter jets
Hrbeckham: most remains today are booked on widebody airliners
islanddavebadger: md 80's
POG70: The airport can handle larger planes...the Vp was there this past week
islanddavebadger: my son is air traffic controller so he gives me heads up
POG70: But the airlines won't run the larger jets into Chattanooga anymore
barry: i think ship outs are down beacause of the economy too. families are calling it a day an just direct cremating and having the ashes shipped back.
Hrbeckham: with fuel going up and up, most likely will have fewer flights
Hrbeckham: some airline flying a larger planes, same number of seats, just fewer flights
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POG70: Hr, we had a fd in Sc took one to the airport and the flight was canceled because they didn't have enought passengers to justify the flight....had to drive that one in, too
islanddavebadger: ughh
Hrbeckham: what a problem
islanddavebadger: welcome to the new order
barry: airfare seems to have gone up $100 per flight the past 3 months on ship outs
jsmack5: good evening all
islanddavebadger: hey js
Hrbeckham: Pog, that might start becoming a problem
POG70: Yeah, the old rule of thumb about not scheduling funeral activities for 24 hours after expected arrival needs to be extended
Host_John: @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Hrbeckham: good night jsmack
jsmack5: gnite hr
POG70: Right, Hr
jsmack5: are we still on the off topic half hour?
islanddavebadger: john did u take your meds
POG70: still off
Hrbeckham: I usually suggest the Fh at the other end not to cut it too close
Host_John: Dave you have too much fresh air out that way
jsmack5: ok... then can i ask all.. to please keep my brother in their prayers
islanddavebadger: hehehehehe
POG70: Good idea, Hr
POG70: Anything can happen\
Hrbeckham: some insist that you ship same day as the removal is made
Host_John: some nice looking people on ABC tonight
jsmack5: he is 48 diagnosed with testicular cancer..
islanddavebadger: ughhh god bless
POG70: Sorry to hear that jsmack
barry: i know hrbeck
fluidpusher: sorry, jsmack, Godspeed...
jsmack5: developed a tumor on his spine which broke his vertebrae.. and left him paralyzed from the waist down
Hrbeckham: a fried of mine had it at 23
Host_John: Yes some do think we can just get dad home from Arkansas to Massachusetts tommorrow
Hrbeckham: friend
Host_John: it takes at least a day of not more
Hrbeckham: still around 30 years later
Host_John: connecting flights are a big problem
jsmack5: the amazing thing.... he keeps on smiling
Hrbeckham: had 4 kids
Hrbeckham: attitude
POG70: That's a tough complication, js
Host_John: Sorry for the news Jsmakc
barry: some states need a signed dc before you can fly
islanddavebadger: i have not had prons with airlines
islanddavebadger: probs
Host_John: These states that have burial/cremation with no DC have naddless Associations
jsmack5: yeah... 46.... last six years... stroke.... heart bypass..... eyes sewed halfway shut because he wouldnt make tears..... developed an ulcer left a big hole in his leg.... now this
Hrbeckham: Hope your brother does well
islanddavebadger: Floriad seems to have a transit permot
Host_John: Florida has 2 assn's
jsmack5: as my pastor said.... sounds like Job
jsmack5: thanks Hr
Host_John: we need to think of ways to get CEU's for participation with the Assn
POG70: I have one client who is bad about scheduling the flight before he even gets the body in and before I get there to see what needs to be done. I've had to rush a few...don't like that\
jsmack5: oh yeah his downfall is he is a Yankee fan
Host_John: otherwize the lazy fd wont do a thing to help our own cause
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POG70: Told him so. He hasn't called me lately
islanddavebadger: bat phone folks gotta run
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barry: when i have a funeral home pressing me to get the deceased on a plane within 12-24 hrs and my fee is only $495 to $695 i tell them someday i'll call you for the same service and then they stop pressing.
jsmack5: my problem with associations is that my employer will not join one... so therefore i cannot be a part of one...... least that is how the associations here on Li seem to work
Host_John: good point Barry
POG70: I had one case where I told the shipping fd (for whom I was doing the embalming) to call the airline and reschedule for a later flight
Host_John: Jsmack I can empathize with your management
S_Moore: Honies I'm home...what is the topic
Host_John: you dont' get much for your membership
jsmack5: hey sam
S_Moore: hi all
jsmack5: true John
POG70: Hello, Sam
Host_John: Hello Sam
POG70: We're shipping out bodies too quickly
fluidpusher: John we get lots of Ceus thru Ohio association
Host_John: NFDA wont' give CEU credit for walking the exhibits with a exhibitors pass
jsmack5: but at the same time... he works 9 to 11 and leaves me to handle everything..
barry: a fair turnaround on a shipout is 48 hours???
Host_John: do you get them for association participation
jsmack5: that was Am hours
jsmack5: lol
S_Moore: the fastest turn around I ever had was 8 hrs.
Host_John: Barry we get a bargin from NMS and INMAN
POG70: Looks like he'd stay out until 10 if he's gonna leave at 11
S_Moore: We like Inman
jsmack5: gets in at nine to start making lunch appointments at 11...lol
fluidpusher: Yes, John, committee meetings, board meetings, etc. all get credit
Host_John: Great
Host_John: that is OHIO Fluid?
barry: i'm in michigan and i have kentucky firms call me when the death call comes in and they're at my doorstep in 6 hrs.
fluidpusher: yes, ohio
Hrbeckham: I like to have the body for 2 days before shipping. That way we can check embalming, reasperate and have time to go to the airport
Host_John: How many credits per year
fluidpusher: we need 18 hours every two years
fluidpusher: its pretty easy to get
POG70: Inman's ok most of the time, but they have their problems keeping consistent affiliates
Hrbeckham: 10 a year in Fla
Host_John: Yes it is great that you get credit for participitation
fluidpusher: Im a rep for Nms
Host_John: we need to work on poliing ourselves
Host_John: we use NMS they are great
Host_John: we did use Inman then they got difficult so we switched
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POG70: Some areas are sparsely covered
fluidpusher: I only ship out for Nms once or twice a year, very few ship outs here.
Host_John: we did try to get locals to do the work but most dont' want the work
Hrbeckham: we look for an independent with charges simuliar to ours
jsmack5: good plan Hr.... i agree... just sometimes it dont work that way
POG70: One funeral home I know of intentionally charges high for shipouts so they won't get any
Hrbeckham: some are very high and on a preneed, that could be a killer
barry: i'e been "held up" in some mountain west states for $2000 for a ship out
Host_John: OK BACK ON TOPIC NOW "GURANTEED OR NOT"
fluidpusher: I take my Gpl charges for what I am doing and charge one half of that to another funeral home
jsmack5: yikes. barry.....
POG70: That should be a non-guaranteed cash advance, Hr
fluidpusher: agree, pog
Hrbeckham: had one from Texas that charged $1800 for airfare
POG70: wow!
jsmack5: we guarantee service charge is funeral is paid in full.... will not guarantee cash advances
barry: must've been the concorde
POG70: right on, js
jsmack5: lol barry
fluidpusher: same here, js
Host_John: We do not gurantee
POG70: John guarantees nothing but that his service is the best around
Hrbeckham: family charged the airfare
Host_John: thanks Dad
POG70: Lol
Host_John: Consumers are very smart
jsmack5: sounds like a reasonable guarantee to me... as long as you can back it up
Host_John: what is life is guranteed?
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POG70: hr, they charged you with the family's airfare?\
Host_John: other than some funerals, what is guranteed?
POG70: death
barry: john, eventhough you don't guarantee; sometimes everything works out ok on prices and you don't have to ask for extra, right?
fluidpusher: not much, John, especially family loyalty, huh?
Hrbeckham: we charge the family the airfare
Host_John: we usually just eat the difference, but we may have to consider re-negotiating in the future
jsmack5: sometimes you shake your head when the person has a guaranteed service charge from 20 years ago..... but that doesnt happen that often...
barry: that my thought too john
fluidpusher: If you eat the difference, John, then you are in fact guaranteeing everything
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Host_John: No Fluid
jsmack5: true fluid
Hrbeckham: getting near bedtime for me....god bless and keep you all. Pray for America too....we need it!
fluidpusher: I dont understand, John
jsmack5: gnite hr..
barry: i got to go back to work. nite all
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Host_John: on paper we do not guarantee
jsmack5: nite barry...
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jsmack5: but in actuality... you do
fluidpusher: So you simply reserve the right to ask for more, if you choose to, is that it?
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Host_John: we don't guarantee
Host_John: make of it what you will but simply we don't gurantee
POG70: But you do take the growth
jsmack5: dont guarantee but honor the original contract
Host_John: most realize that nothing is life is guaranteed
fluidpusher: John, do you collect the additional cash advance money that is needed?
Host_John: for those who gurantee how do you make up the difference
Host_John: how will you make up the forcasted new taxes?
jsmack5: is there another word or phrase we should be using, John?
Host_John: Yes we collect for additional charges
jsmack5: interest earned
POG70: I explain to purchaser that the growth is what enable us to offer guarantee....that if there is excess available after at-need price is paid, beneficiary gets the excess; if the price is more than preneed funds, funeral home eats it\
Host_John: No Jsmack it's guaranteed or not guaranteed
fluidpusher: me, too, Pog.
POG70: also tell them that disciplines us in our price-raising
diggerffs: Why would you return the excess on a guaranteed account Pog?
Host_John: POG it goes just as well if you tell them you get the excess back if there is too much money
jsmack5: but the interest makes up for the difference in the cash advances which i did not guarantee
POG70: The law requires it
Host_John: and if there is a shortfall we will choose a lesser expensive funeral or you can pay the difference
Host_John: Law here is different I guess POG
diggerffs: Then prepaying an account from the Funeral Director's side makes no economic sense at all. It is a financial losing proposition.
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fluidpusher: Growth enables us to guarantee merchandise and services, if there is excess growth, it can be applied to cash advances. If there is excess after all at need expenses are paid, it is returned to family. That is rare, however.
POG70: digger, Tennessee law requires insurance company or trust to pay excess to beneficiary
POG70: Rare here, too
fluidpusher: In Ohio, excess on insurance must be returned. Excess from trusts can be kept by funeral home.
diggerffs: In Mass we can keep the excess on a guarantted account, but not on a non-guaranteed one.
fluidpusher: It all depends on age, how long in force, and the company writing the policy/trust
POG70: I've always been in favor of excess going back to family.
jsmack5: sounds like a base for abuse inohio, fluid
Host_John: I am excited to learn that you have excess in Ohio and Tennessee
jsmack5: Ny never has an excess...lol
diggerffs: I wish the excess happened more often also.
POG70: As noted above, John, it is rare
Host_John: it never happens here
fluidpusher: Also depends on how much you raise your prices each year, too. Raise them too much and you will have shortfalls, that is guaranteed.
Host_John: Obituarys are skyrocketing
Host_John: they were done for free
POG70: Lol.....guaranteed shortfalls
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POG70: Same here, john
Host_John: good point POG
fluidpusher: Yes, John, newspapers finally realize that they have a cash cow in obituaries
Host_John: your website can help there
jsmack5: free???? been at least 12 dollars a line... min 14 lines here for years
diggerffs: Since our trusts earn about 3-4%, and Big casket just announced an 8-10% increase, excess funds are not going to be there.
Host_John: consider putting your own obits up on your sige
Host_John: site
Host_John: we see some now suggesting to go to funeral home website for more information
POG70: Some sellers of preneed years ago did not adequately explain difference in guaranteed and non-guaranteed items, leading to difficult explanations today
Host_John: that is the future for all of us POG
jsmack5: cant get my boss t do internet.... got close a couple of times... just wont pull the trigger
fluidpusher: Yes, Pog, I still have some old ones from previous owner, he didn't explain well, and he also took big commissions and low growth, so I eat a lot when those die.
fluidpusher: Some day those will all be gone
POG70: that's tough deal, fp
jsmack5: brb
fluidpusher: but you know, half a loaf is better than no loaf at al....
Host_John: we get a 150 visitors per day to our site
POG70: and other generations in that family
Host_John: more visitors than telephone calls
fluidpusher: Any funeral you do consists of some future good will to others
POG70: As long as this funeral went over well
fluidpusher: Right.
POG70: Our reputation is on the line with every funeral
fluidpusher: More and more,pog, loyalties are not what they once were.
POG70: No, they are not.
fluidpusher: I have two competitors, we are all about the same volume, must always be on my toes.
jsmack5: back
fluidpusher: We missed you
jsmack5: i forgot i was gone....lol
POG70: I left earlier to rub some lotion on my wife's back and no one missed me.
jsmack5: hmmm.... reminds me.... wife wanted me before...
fluidpusher: If my wife wanted lotion rubbed on her back, I wouldn't come back here!!!!
POG70: You're too young for that, js
jsmack5: i am???
POG70: too young to forget, js
jsmack5: daughter is a Nyc cop... granddaughter is 8....
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jsmack5: did i walk the dog??? lol
fluidpusher: John, do you know if your competition guarantees prices or not?
Host_John: they do
POG70: They say that 50 caliber cavity fluid will do that to you
jsmack5: lol pog.... thanks... i feel better now
Host_John: did any of you sell insurance
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Host_John: you see shortfalls
Host_John: that commission was not worth it
jsmack5: i couldnt sell space heaters to eskimos
POG70: I know a funeral director that for years guaranteed funerals on the basis of assigned whole life policies with no growth. he's hurting now.
jsmack5: color him stupid
POG70: right, js\
Host_John: reading the fine print in your insurance agreement would have enlightened you
POG70: I fund preneeds with insurance
jsmack5: trust accounts
Host_John: you will see larger shortgalls POG
Host_John: whoops shortfalls
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POG70: fewer headaches, though... no taxes
Host_John: no taxes is the seller to the consumer
fluidpusher: John, is that your son's wedding photo on your site?
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Host_John: but the short falls are on you
Host_John: up our way the bank sends all the 1099s direct to consumer
POG70: Not that big an amount in most cases
Host_John: Hello Angela
Angela_Sisk: hello all
Host_John: OPEN FORUM FUNERAL CHATTER UNTIL NEXT TIME
POG70: Short falls with trusts, too
jsmack5: hello angela
Host_John: I humbly suggest you re think gurantee
POG70: no guarantee, no sale
Host_John: try it on, it's the truth nothing in life is guranteed except death
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POG70: When I tell people assigning their existing insurance will not guarantee, they drop the matter
fluidpusher: Guarantee is The selling point here, without it, why should anyone prepay? Just keep their money invested.
Host_John: not a bad suggestion fluid
jsmack5: very true fluid
POG70: If we don't guarantee, they'll not prepay
Host_John: have them keep the money and pay when the time comes
Trice9: What's wrong with assigning I miss something?
POG70: unless it is a Medicaid case
fluidpusher: I'll take assignments, but I am very clear that it is not considered a prepaid funeral contract. No guarantees at all.
Host_John: assignments are cancelable
jsmack5: just gonna say..... irrevocables...lol
Trice9: oh I c now
POG70: Trice, they think assigning their existing insurance will guarantee the funeral cost
Host_John: insurance is difficult
Trice9: oh no
jsmack5: cant do that pog
POG70: same here, fp\
Trice9: What do you guys require
Host_John: one could consider getting ownership of the policy then there will be no changes you are un aware of
POG70: We used to do that, john, but state law now forbids it
Trice9: funeral home can't be beneficiary right
fluidpusher: That's what we do, John, take a change of ownership and absolute assignemnt. It is irrevocable and puts us in charge of the policy.
jsmack5: i cant do that.... they wont let me....
fluidpusher: Yes, Trice, at least in Ohio, f.h. is owner and beneficiary. Qualifies for Medicaid and keeps the policy in force.
Trice9: ok ga won't allow that
Paul: Thanks very much John, I have to do some thinking, good night all
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POG70: funeral home cannot be beneficiary, either. However, beneficiary can irrevocably assign death benefit, according to state law, even though insurance company does not recognize beneficiary as having any standing with company to do so
jsmack5: nor will ny
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jsmack5: cant do that here.... it is still considered an asset
POG70: fp, that used to be the case in tennessee until that yahoo in Memphis stole those millions of dollars by being the owner
fluidpusher: Yes, Pog, too bad.
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Host_John: to those insurance companies that will not make the funeral home beneficiary we make the funeral director beneficiary
POG70: Tennesse Medicaid allows for irrevocable assignment to funeral trust to exclude policy from being counted as asset
fluidpusher: And when that funeral director leaves your employ, John???
jsmack5: i cant even get insurance companies to tell me how much the policy is for..
POG70: Funeral director csannot be beneficiary here
POG70: The crooks in our midst have made it difficult for all of us
Host_John: we are fortunate to have a woman on staff who can smooze with the insurace companies and gets helpful data when we need it
jsmack5: could be a conflict of interest pog.... after all... we do have blank death certificates...lol
POG70: That's been done before, js\
jsmack5: ya think???
POG70: Yes, there was a case this past year somewhere...kentucky, I think.
fluidpusher: Having f.h. as owner allows family to retain a policy with high death benefit but low cash value and still qualify for Medicaid assistance.
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POG70: Another case had a fd turning in death claims to his preneed insurance carrier on insureds who were still alive\
jsmack5: i have always said.... if there is a name for it..... someone has done it...
fluidpusher: always someone out there making it more difficult for the rest of us....
jsmack5: so true fp
POG70: True, Fp, which is why I don't understabnd our new law. It does not keep the owner from accessing the cash value
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jsmack5: can we do lunch, pog? lol
fluidpusher: And then there were four....
POG70: Nj is a long way for me
POG70: but then at my age across town is a long way
jsmack5: guess that means that Ny is that much further...ll
jsmack5: lol
POG70: That's right, long Island, isn't it?
jsmack5: yep
fluidpusher: Pog, how far are you from Gatlinburg/pigeon Forge?
POG70: my memories not entirely gone
POG70: menory's
POG70: memory's
POG70: I'll get it right yet
jsmack5: in all seriousness... please keep my brother Mark in your prayers.... can use all he can get
POG70: fp, fifty miles\
POG70: had dinner in Pigeon forge last week
POG70: no, sixty mile
fluidpusher: Will do, js, again, Godspeed to him
POG70: Yes, of course, js
jsmack5: do they serve pigeon in pigeon forge?
jsmack5: thank you
POG70: They call it quail
fluidpusher: Dollywood chicken
jsmack5: dan?
POG70: Lol
jsmack5: with potatoe?
POG70: depends
fluidpusher: I think Im done. Great chat tonight, y'all take care.
Host_John: Time for me to head on out, thank you come coming have a great week