30NOV08 THE GRAVESIDE SERVICE ©

WELCOME, glad you could visit us, OUR TOPIC: "THE GRAVESIDE SERVICE" THIS CHAT WILL PROBABLY BE COPIED TO www.funeralserviceprofessional.com FOR ANYONE TO ENJOY LATER. Just a few rules for everyone: 1. USE ONLY PLAIN BLACK TEXT 2 DO NOT USE COMPANY NAMES 3 DISCRIMINATION IS NOT ALLOWED. If you would like chat reminders please send to: LOWELLMA@AOL.COM

Graveside_Service_Expert: always note cardonal rule #1
david1990: Hello John
Graveside_Service_Expert: School Takes Priority No Matter What!
david1990: Yep
Graveside_Service_Expert: Good evening John
Host_John: Hello
Host_John: Be right with ya
Graveside_Service_Expert: take your time
Graveside_Service_Expert: just remember i like mine to be a Diet Soda please
david1990: lol
david1990: Last weeks topic was church funerals (had one on tuesday) and then a grave side on wednesday
david1990: so the past few topics have been flowing with my work so far
Graveside_Service_Expert: I do nothing but gravesides
Graveside_Service_Expert: Jewish Gravesides mainly
Host_John: ALL BETTER
Graveside_Service_Expert: whats going on John?
Graveside_Service_Expert: anything I can do to help?
david1990: Gravesides are nice for families that arn't into religion and just want to get it over with
Graveside_Service_Expert: we are exclusively Jewish
Graveside_Service_Expert: its also economical
Graveside_Service_Expert: respectful
Graveside_Service_Expert: and saves on both time and limited funds
Host_John: where do you meet for your graveside service?
Graveside_Service_Expert: depends on whether we have a Meet & Greet
Host_John: with cell phones and gps things are a lot easier for everyone
Host_John: what is meet and greet?
Graveside_Service_Expert: that means family meets at funeral home
Graveside_Service_Expert: (more)
Host_John: we almost always meet at the funeral home
david1990: The graveside we did on wednesday the family met at the funeral home and we had a procession to the cemetary
Graveside_Service_Expert: to either utilize as a central meeting point
Host_John: we have restrooms :-)
Graveside_Service_Expert: and then proceed to the cemetery
Graveside_Service_Expert: or generally i have the family meet at the administrative office at the cemetery
Graveside_Service_Expert: i alwaysalways
Host_John: what are some examples of Central meeting points?
Graveside_Service_Expert: tell the family never meet at the grave
Graveside_Service_Expert: well funeral home location
Graveside_Service_Expert: at times
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Graveside_Service_Expert: is an easier location for all to meet and follow their loved one to the cemetery
hrbeckham: Hello all
david1990: Hello
Host_John: we meet at the grave when we are way out of town, however we tell family to go to cemetery office where we hand out maps to the site
Graveside_Service_Expert: a church or temple/synagogue
Graveside_Service_Expert: hi Hr
Host_John: Hello howard
Graveside_Service_Expert: thats an interesting idea
david1990: We've done the maps before at the visitation for the next day if we arnt meeting at the Fh
Host_John: with google maps you can take the satelite option and print it out
Graveside_Service_Expert: you also have to take into consideration that some family have friends or relatives from all over
Graveside_Service_Expert: how do you use google ? in what ways?
hrbeckham: many cemeteries seem to use direction arrows to point the way to the gravesite
Graveside_Service_Expert: not any of my cemeteries
Host_John: if the cemetery is difficult to find we park our vehicles on the connor
Graveside_Service_Expert: we meet at the admin office and then get an escort to the grave
Graveside_Service_Expert: on the connor?
Graveside_Service_Expert: whats that mean please?
Host_John: if the cemetery is difficult to find, we park one of our cars at the intersection off the main street
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Graveside_Service_Expert: hi dave
Host_John: attendees see it and find it helpful
Graveside_Service_Expert: and its called a Connor?
daveB: morning all heheheh
Graveside_Service_Expert: interesting
david1990: Helloo
Graveside_Service_Expert: very different here
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Graveside_Service_Expert: in fact some of the cemeteries dont offer tents or chairs o even allow chairs - do to liability issues
hrbeckham: we will put a link to mapquest on our web site with the obit
Graveside_Service_Expert: Hi Sam and Mac
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Graveside_Service_Expert: Hi Mass
MassFD: helo
Sam_Moore: Hi all.....expert
david1990: The vault company always supplies the tent and chairs for us i believe
MassFD: hello*
mactj2: hello
Host_John: the corner where the intersection is
Graveside_Service_Expert: interesting
Graveside_Service_Expert: different all over the country
hrbeckham: it seems that the families all seem to know how to find the out of town cemeteries...sometime better than we do...especially if they are rural
Sam_Moore: we supply tents and chairs for all services
Sam_Moore: what is the subject matter tonite
Host_John: in the winter things depend much on the weather
Graveside_Service_Expert: what area are in Sam?
david1990: Gravesides is the topic i believe
MassFD: vault company supply all that is needed for us here in central Mass
Graveside_Service_Expert: Gravesides
Sam_Moore: so calif
Host_John: the worse the weather the lower the attendence
Graveside_Service_Expert: especially a graveside
hrbeckham: we have the vault service that serves the out of town area open & close & set up for us....unless the cemetery has their own crew
Host_John: Sam in the greeting the topic is announced
Graveside_Service_Expert: and funny you should say that John - family called that they want us to rent a chapel instread of a graveside
Graveside_Service_Expert: they found out how cold it is anticipated
Graveside_Service_Expert: demanded a chapel to rent
MassFD: do any funeral homes suply music for grave sides? "boom box and Cd's
david1990: If you decide to have the family meet you there normally we go out a half hour before they get there incase of any early arrivals. when the family arrive do you already have the casket placed on the rollers? or still in the hearse?
Host_John: here in Lovely Lowell Massachusetts USA most cemeteries have a chapel on site to utilize in bad weather
Sam_Moore: wecan
Graveside_Service_Expert: not us - National Cem does though
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Graveside_Service_Expert: Hi all
Host_John: some clergy demand we go to the grave even in the worse weather
Graveside_Service_Expert: oy
daveB: john remember some in lowell require u use chapel
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hrbeckham: gravesides go down in winter. Fall and Spring they seem to pick up..usually in the morning in the summer...it get so hot in the afternoon
Host_John: few stay for the burial, one staff member we require to stay for the burial
daveB: no choice
MassFD: there are many places in central Mass we have to wait to spring , now as they close for winter ,
Graveside_Service_Expert: hmmmm
Host_John: we have only been booted from one mauselium park
Graveside_Service_Expert: so then bodies are placed in a holding vault Mass?
Graveside_Service_Expert: why booted?
daveB: central mas should have no prob they need to get heaters
MassFD: yes most cemeteries that close have a tomb
daveB: shame on them
MassFD: i hear ya
Graveside_Service_Expert: why and how do they boot you?
MassFD: families agree to pay extra but crew say now ay
MassFD: way*
daveB: what do you consider central
daveB: i am in Litleon
MassFD: Fitchburg to Greenfield lots of small cemeteries close
Host_John: Superintendent told us NO ONE can stay
Graveside_Service_Expert: so what happens ...crew takes the casket and then what?
Host_John: we called family cell phone to tell them and they said OK you can go
MassFD: palce it in tomb till spring
Graveside_Service_Expert: doesnt your state require licensed supervision?
daveB: silly
Host_John: Graveside
Host_John: you cannot use bold print
Graveside_Service_Expert: sry
Host_John: in Massachusetts once in the cemetery the superitendent is in charge of remains
mactj2: they must be hiding something
Host_John: thats the law
Graveside_Service_Expert: thats better then what Ive got
Graveside_Service_Expert: John. if thats the law whats to mitigate any liability issues?
daveB: you can donate a heater and make you the hero
MassFD: we did , they refused it
daveB: cheap money
Host_John: we tell families up front that we cannot stay at that mausoleum, so they know up front
hrbeckham: there is a national cemetery being "built" in Jacksonville to open next year and we already have been using our mausoleum to hold deceased until cemetery is open for burials
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Graveside_Service_Expert: wow
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Graveside_Service_Expert: Let me give an example...take into consideration the recent Tissue Donation controversy
daveB: well then the probelm is between the cemetery and family and you need to expwelin thet it will cost them an extra charge for you tou to fetch the body to to the spring burila
Host_John: some of the area towns here close in the winter, it is common here in New England
Graveside_Service_Expert: once they have the remains...whats to stop them from doing something without your knowledge?
Host_John: we use a local cemetery to hold the remains until the burial in the spring
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Graveside_Service_Expert: welcome
Host_John: so it seems most FD's meet at the funeral home prior to going to the cemetery
jsmack5: thanks graveside.... was reading the rules...... i cant discriminate???? rats
jsmack5: lol
Host_John: or meet at the cemetery adminstation office prior to graveside
Host_John: any other service options
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Host_John: most do not meet at the grave
Graveside_Service_Expert: Do any of you utilize a traditional hearse or an alternative vehicle
Host_John: we almost always use the hearse
Host_John: even for burial of cremated remains
Graveside_Service_Expert: ive had it where families hold up a service for 1 or 2 and it turns out they were at the graveside the whole time
david1990: There have been a few times we've meet at the grave
ConnectingDirectors: Cems i Ohio are open in the winter. They will only close for 1 day when the weather is just to bad
jsmack5: we use a hearse.... can meet at cemetery or funeral home....
Graveside_Service_Expert: We always tell the family to inform loved ones and friends to meet at the entrance of the cemetery where an administrative bldg is
jsmack5: some still would like a procession to cemetery
Graveside_Service_Expert: We almost always use hearse sometimes a service van
Host_John: ofen we will publish the procession will form at the funeral home
Graveside_Service_Expert: depends on the family
jsmack5: i like that idea john
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Host_John: procession is helpful for those who don't know where the cemetery is
Graveside_Service_Expert: i like it too - but most families do things differently - they will meet at cemetery
daveB: if they entomb for winter here we need to cahrge family for going back and doing it all over
Graveside_Service_Expert: makes sense John....but most always call for directions to the Cemetery
jsmack5: also gives a little formality to the service
ConnectingDirectors: We service very few graveside services. Most families meet at the funeral home and use a percession
ConnectingDirectors: procession
Graveside_Service_Expert: percussion?
Host_John: family is the boss, but call on us for direction, however in the end we will do what they want
jsmack5: hmmm thought they might be playing drums conn
Graveside_Service_Expert: Exatly
Graveside_Service_Expert: exactly*
daveB: but all cemeteries locally are now burying all years round
Host_John: not here DaveB we have sping burials each year
Graveside_Service_Expert: we have burials all year round
david1990: Same here
daveB: only 12 miles away john how come
Host_John: however we decide at arrangements if the family will be coming in the spring
jsmack5: year round here on long island, John.... we keep our ground warmer than yours..
Host_John: we can't tell the cemeterys what to do
Host_John: some cems just close
daveB: john which ones
Host_John: we cannot use names here dave
Graveside_Service_Expert: tell a cemetery what to do and youll be haunted forever
Host_John: ethnic cemtery here
daveB: hmm never had any probs in your area
Host_John: ok call me a liar
daveB: heheheh wink wink
jsmack5: just reading that statement.... "cannot use names in here dave" hmmmm
jsmack5: lol
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Graveside_Service_Expert: that was fast
daveB: host john is just soarking up
daveB: sparking
daveB: he needs fodder
Graveside_Service_Expert: spanking*
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Graveside_Service_Expert: ???
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daveB: Ohh\
daveB: sorry John
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jsmack5: John, have an idea for a topic... though i really wish i didnt
Graveside_Service_Expert: whats your idea for discussion Smack?
jsmack5: services for family members
Graveside_Service_Expert: go for it
daveB: ours?
Graveside_Service_Expert: id like to hear some new ideas
jsmack5: buried my 47 yo brother 3 weeks ago
daveB: sorry man
jsmack5: thanks..
Graveside_Service_Expert: please accept my condolences
daveB: and what did you do
jsmack5: I did my job.... did not do prep...... but handled everything else..... it was so hard
daveB: full service?
Graveside_Service_Expert: its always very hard when it hits you personally!
Graveside_Service_Expert: ive had to attend 3 funerals for funeral directors in the past 4 months
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jsmack5: yeah 1 day visitation church the works.. and about 1000 people showed up at the visitation... it was incredible
daveB: wow you got on the other end
jsmack5: he was not a Fd..... but a great guy
daveB: well at least you got to do that
cnmmnc: Good evening Gentlemen
daveB: my dad was 2nd generation Fd
Graveside_Service_Expert: Hello Cnm
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daveB: he got remarried retired after i ended up with bixz
daveB: moved south
cnmmnc: I had a graveside at old montifiore in queens today
daveB: died this years
daveB: eveil stepmother had him cremated and told us later
daveB: Ooooohhhh
daveB: never got to do the right thing so kudos to you
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hrbeckham: good evening Ron
RonHast: Thanks & 2 U
Graveside_Service_Expert: Hi Ron
hrbeckham: some good articles in Mm this month
RonHast: :-)
RonHast: Thanks..
hrbeckham: it is surprising how few family/independent funeral homes do not have a clue about marking and advertising
hrbeckham: marketing
Graveside_Service_Expert: thats truer
Graveside_Service_Expert: true*
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brud: Hr - how's the weather down there tonight?
hrbeckham: most funeral home owners promote what they think is important. They do not have a clue what families look for, or what they want out of a funeral home
RonHast: True. Many are insensitive to the trends and facts regarding their potential clientele.
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Graveside_Service_Expert: give an example, please? Hr?
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hrbeckham: rain...from the Gulf of Mexico..cold front moving in much cooler next few days close to freezing at night then back into to 70's to low 50's by weeks end
RonHast: Some believe a large ad in the phone book will attract. Many wise Fd's only place a "name reference" ad for telephone contact, which has proven to be smart.
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brud: snow and sleet up here tonight - they are plowing/sanding the roads
brud: it's "fall" according to my calendar....
hrbeckham: read Mortuary Managment magazine this month
Tom: Just back from Puerto Vallarta was 86 there all week
Host_John: Back on topic in 10 minutes
Graveside_Service_Expert: what do you consider a "name reference" ad Ron?
RonHast: So persons seeking to call the firm can find a reference to their telephone number in the directory.
hrbeckham: few market to the public, they have the attitute that "it worked 40 years ago...it still works today"
Graveside_Service_Expert: ok
RonHast: Rarely do persons select a funeral home from ads in the yellow pages. It is former service, and references that are at the top.
hrbeckham: people have different expectations today, different needs
Tom: That why the democrates have take over... everyone wants change... the way thing worked for 40 year is not working anymore
hrbeckham: funeral homes need to have the ability to meet these needs
RonHast: The Internet is far more pursuasive. It answers comparative questions and is much more personal in their area of service.
Tom: If Funeral Home don't change they will be out with the Republicans... and I'm a republican so I can say that... We have to change our way of thinking
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cnmmnc: Rh What do you think of people who really have no connection to a firm, this is people who moved in the last 5 yrs. how do they identify a firm to do business with?
RonHast: The client public is our ultimate boss. Their needs and wishes must be anticipated and met. Preaching the value of a (traditional) funeral is pase at this point, again proven.
Tom: Same for any business cnmmnc... Real estate for example, you just need to check with people you meet in the community and see what they have to say... Chamber of Commerce comes to mind
Host_John: getting out there in the community to meet the newbees is a good avenue
RonHast: cnmmnc - usually a trusted person at hand at the time or place of death can be very helpful and pursuasive. People don't run to an "ad" to choose a care provider.
Graveside_Service_Expert: What can Chanber of Commerce offer Tom?
cnmmnc: right, i concur
jsmack5: People talk
Tom: Someone to talk to Gse it you don't know anyone in the community
Host_John: just be nice to everyone you never know whos ear they will have
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Tom: Chamber usually knows who the bad apples are...
hrbeckham: fewer folks have a connection to a particulier funeral home because of the transient nature of our society
RonHast: Hospice workers, nurses, police dept, hospital staff handling death information -- all are in first position to suggest a name.
Host_John: Chamber, ROtary, Lyons Elks
jsmack5: but can also offer referrals to others
Tom: Yes John, it is great to join a service club when you move to a community... you will learn alot
hrbeckham: I think service clubs have less of an influence than they used to...
Host_John: I enjoy visiting service clubs whilst on Vacaton
Tom: As a Kiwanis past president... I paid my dues
RonHast: Best is to develop a stellar reputation in a community, and the experience of others attending, and general talk goes a long way to build a reputation.
jsmack5: John, I have to be nice to people??? hmmm
Host_John: vacation
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cnmmnc: I've found it best to keep politics out of the funeral home
Host_John: jsm I am sure you can be nasty at times too
Host_John: when things dont go in your direction
jsmack5: politics and business do not mix
RonHast: Time for a "blessing" (cocktail), etc. Thanks for the chat.
Host_John: I agree jsm
Host_John: Night Ron
jsmack5: not really..... dont have a nasty bone in my body.... a lot of sarcastic ones...
Host_John: good to see you
Graveside_Service_Expert: Good night Rh
jsmack5: nite Rn
RonHast: :-)
hrbeckham: good night Ron
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Host_John: when the family brings up meeting at graveside, what do you say?
Graveside_Service_Expert: meeting as far as what?
Graveside_Service_Expert: at Cemetery?
jsmack5: when dealing with a family...what priority does a graveside service getaa/
cnmmnc: as long as its not between 12 and 1, its fine
Graveside_Service_Expert: depends on the cemetery...some have a strict lunch hour some dont
Host_John: yes their immagination is a graveside service
Host_John: what do you assume
Graveside_Service_Expert: we tell them to meet at the Cemetery Admin office
jsmack5: will the graveside family get as much attention as the full service family?
cnmmnc: its the same jsm
Graveside_Service_Expert: i dont see why not - unless it is a direct burial and then family says they want to witness the burial
jsmack5: i would hope so
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hrbeckham: Hope you all have a good week. God bless you all, and may God bless and protect America.
hrbeckham: Good night
cnmmnc: au revoir
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Graveside_Service_Expert: Amen
jsmack5: nite beck
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Host_John: the family wants your expertese
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Host_John: they tell you we want the best casket and you say we will a look at caskets
Host_John: We don't choose we guide
Host_John: we being myself and staff
jsmack5: I agree, John... was just wondering if the quality of the funeral affected how some people approach the service
Host_John: communication is key
Host_John: how to spread the word
Graveside_Service_Expert: agree John - its also how they perceive a graveside
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Host_John: could be how we preceive a graveside too
Host_John: spreading the word to family and friends is an element we should discuss some time too
Graveside_Service_Expert: what i meant was if they actually saw and experienced a graveside service
jsmack5: that is my point, John. How do we come across when it is a "low end" funeal.
jsmack5: is our quality of service still there?
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Graveside_Service_Expert: why wouldnt it be?
jsmack5: it should be....
Host_John: jsm we hand out the GPL to each family and discuss what they would like
cnmmnc: what jsm is driving at is do you look at direct/immediate as cut and dried?
Host_John: we had a family recently that wanted to keep it low end, and keeping it low end was to keep it under ten thousand
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Host_John: we are called on for our expertese
jsmack5: true cnm... and do you approach it differently
Host_John: communicate options and ask the famliy to choose
jsmack5: what is your directors attitude to serving the graveside family as opposed to the full service funeral... does he look at them differently...
Host_John: not at all
jsmack5: are all families the same?
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Host_John: same spirt of service
cnmmnc: how many times have we all spent the same time, thought/effort on direct crem/imm. burials and said "I put this into every service I do"
jsmack5: that is how it should be John.... but is that a reality throughout the industry?
Host_John: the younger generation are more on track to be sure all are treated with respect
jsmack5: i give all my best efforts....
POG70: Offer everal options of graveside services\
Host_John: the old timers are frequently the ones who look the spirit they once had
Host_John: we have been successful by keeping younger colleagues around us
jsmack5: see, john,,, my experience with the younger ones in my area... is quality service for the least amount of work
Host_John: jsm they need to be explained how heart breaking this is to familys in these economic times
cnmmnc: John, the biggest problem I've heard about the younger crew is they want to make a fortune and work 3-4 hrs a day, and 2. they dont want to get their hands dirty, that its beneath them...
jsmack5: very true cnm
Host_John: they need to be told what they will be earning as a gross pay
jsmack5: and one of the biggest mistakes Nys made is letting family members do their residency in the family funeal home..
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Host_John: once they see the ceiling and realize that quality volume will make things more profitable they will come around
CCowan: Hi, Everybody
jsmack5: hi cc
Host_John: we are all re building our business as we bury our clients
cnmmnc: an old practicioner said it like so...'they want to make arrangements and strut around directing the funeral but they don't know how it got from point A to B'
jsmack5: that is my "resident"
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jsmack5: my "resident " couldnt find the prep room with a map
Host_John: we print out what each persons job will be for each service
cnmmnc: so as far as cut and dried services direct and otherwise, it's very possible
Host_John: they all know what their jobs are
cnmmnc: good
Host_John: if they don't like their job, they know they need to improove to get the position they want
jsmack5: I keep telling him... Smoothie Roo across the street is hiring
jsmack5: lol
Host_John: we are not going to put an unseasoned colleague anywhere near the familiy
cnmmnc: lol what the heck is smoothie roo?
Host_John: they learn from looking on
POG70: The latest new hires I've encountered though they didn't need to improve..that their mission was to straighten out this firm and its staff
jsmack5: dont know... never been in there... just opened up about two weeks ago
Host_John: OK Back on topic
Host_John: how do you disburse the graveside?
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jsmack5: I usually make an announcement and ask people to place their flower on the casket.... help all to place them then lead the way back to the cars
cnmmnc: I said this before on here john, I go over what the service will consist of like i'm telling a story
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Host_John: I understand CN, do you disburse the family and friends at the end of the service
cnmmnc: "first this happens, and you'll be here and aunt mary will be here and then abc"
POG70: Sharing with the family what to expect, and explaining options to them, help to avoid surprises. The family knows ahead of time what is coming
jsmack5: but does everyone else know?
cnmmnc: yes, i do the flower momento, handing flowers out to guests, have someone help open doors
Tom_F: Have you had the situation where a family asks you to deliver the casket to the cemetery at a specific time and then leave - they will do there own service. The State of Washington says it is totally legal. And they want to be charged for immediate burial ??
jsmack5: cant do that here.... Fd must be present
cnmmnc: in Ny and Nj for sure
jsmack5: Ny here cnm
fluidpusher: "folks, the services for John are now complete, and we thank you for being here. As Rev. Jones said in church, everyone is invited back to the church for a meal, to enjoy some refreshment and fellowship. John's grave will be well-cared for after we depart the cemetery. Thank you for your attenda
Host_John: we say: On behalf of the family we thank you for coming to the funeral today, this now concludes the services at the cemtery and we wish you a safe journey home.
cnmmnc: yeah I know, i'm just saying
Host_John: the flower on the casket is a nice touch
jsmack5: i like it... then when i start to walk away... they all follow me... works most of the time
POG70: I usually add that the closing of the grave will take about an hour, so after that time span, they can come back if they wish
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Host_John: THANKS FOR YOU PARTICIATION, WE ARE IN OPEN FORUM FUNERAL CHATTER UNTIL NEXT TIME